by: Kevin Trenberth
From: The Australian
February 03, 201212:00AM
60 comments
DO you consult your dentist about your heart condition? In science, as in any area, reputations are based on knowledge and expertise in a field and on published, peer-reviewed work. If you need surgery, you want a highly experienced expert in the field who has done a large number of the proposed operations.
The opinion piece “Climate change ‘heretics’ refute carbon dangers” (Wednesday) was the climate-science equivalent of dentists practising cardiology. While accomplished, most of its authors have no expertise in climate science. The few who have are known to hold extreme views that are out of step with nearly every other climate expert.
This happens in nearly every field of science. For example, there is a retrovirus expert who does not accept HIV causes AIDS. And it is instructive to recall a few scientists continued to state that smoking did not cause cancer, long after it was settled science.
Climate experts know the long-term warming trend has not abated in the past decade. In fact, it was the warmest decade on record. Observations show unequivocally our planet is getting hotter. And computer models show that during periods when there is a smaller increase of surface temperatures, warming is occurring elsewhere, typically in the deep ocean. Such periods are relatively common climate phenomena, are consistent with our physical understanding of how the climate system works and certainly do not invalidate our understanding of human-induced warming or the models used to simulate that warming.
Thus, climate experts also know what one of us, Kevin Trenberth, meant by the out-of-context, misrepresented quote used in the opinion piece.
Mr Trenberth was lamenting the inadequacy of observing systems to fully monitor warming trends in the deep ocean and other aspects of the short-term variations that always occur, together with the long-term human-induced warming trend.
The National Academy of Sciences of the US (set up by Abraham Lincoln to advise on scientific issues) and major national academies of science around the world and every other authoritative body of scientists active in climate research state the science is clear: the world is heating up and humans are primarily responsible. Impacts are already apparent and will increase. Reducing future impacts will require significant reductions in emissions.
Research shows more than 97 per cent of scientists actively publishing in the field agree climate change is real and caused by humans. It would be an act of recklessness for any political leader to disregard the weight of evidence and ignore the enormous risks climate change clearly poses.
There is also clear evidence the transition to a low-carbon economy will not only allow the world to avoid the worst risks of climate change, but could also drive decades of economic growth. Just what the doctor ordered.
Kevin Trenberth is a distinguished senior scientist at the National Centre for Atmospheric Research, La Jolla, California. This piece is supported by 38 other US, European and Australian climate scientists, named below:
Richard Somerville, Ph.D., Distinguished Professor, Scripps Institution of Oceanography, University of California, San Diego; Katharine Hayhoe, Ph.D., Director, Climate Science Center, Texas Tech University; Rasmus Benestad, Ph.D., Senior Scientist, The Norwegian Meteorological Institute; Gerald Meehl, Ph.D., Senior Scientist, Climate and Global Dynamics Division, National Center for Atmospheric Research; Michael Oppenheimer, Ph.D., Professor of Geosciences; Director, Program in Science, Technology and Environmental Policy, Princeton University; Peter Gleick, Ph.D., co-founder and president, Pacific Institute for Studies in Development, Environment, and Security;Michael C. MacCracken, Ph.D., Chief Scientist, Climate Institute, Washington; Michael Mann, Ph.D., Director, Earth System Science Center, Pennsylvania State University; Steven Running, Ph.D., Professor, Director, Numerical Terradynamic Simulation Group, University of Montana; Robert Corell, Ph.D., Chair, Arctic Climate Impact Assessment; Principal, Global Environment Technology Foundation; Dennis Ojima, Ph.D., Professor, Senior Research Scientist, and Head of the Dept. of Interior’s Climate Science Center at Colorado State University;
Josh Willis, Ph.D., Climate Scientist, NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory; Matthew England, Ph.D., Professor, Joint Director of the Climate Change Research Centre, University of New South Wales, Australia; Ken Caldeira, Ph.D., Atmospheric Scientist, Dept. of Global Ecology, Carnegie Institution; Warren Washington, Ph.D., Senior Scientist, National Center for Atmospheric Research; Terry L. Root, Ph.D., Senior Fellow, Woods Institute for the Environment, Stanford University; David Karoly, Ph.D., ARC Federation Fellow and Professor, University of Melbourne, Australia; Jeffrey Kiehl, Ph.D., Senior Scientist, Climate and Global Dynamics Division, National Center for Atmospheric Research; Donald Wuebbles, Ph.D., Professor of Atmospheric Sciences, University of Illinois; Camille Parmesan, Ph.D., Professor of Biology, University of Texas; Professor of Global Change Biology, Marine Institute, University of Plymouth, UK; Simon Donner, Ph.D., Assistant Professor, Department of Geography, University of British Columbia, Canada; Barrett N. Rock, Ph.D., Professor, Complex Systems Research Center and Department of Natural Resources, University of New Hampshire; David Griggs, Ph.D., Professor and Director, Monash Sustainability Institute, Monash University, Australia; Roger N. Jones, Ph.D., Professor, Professorial Research Fellow, Centre for Strategic Economic Studies, Victoria University, Australia; William L. Chameides, Ph.D., Dean and Professor, School of the Environment, Duke University; Gary Yohe, Ph.D., Professor, Economics and Environmental Studies, Wesleyan University, CT; Robert Watson, Ph.D., Chief Scientific Advisor to the UK Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs; Chair of Environmental Sciences, University of East Anglia; Steven Sherwood, Ph.D., Director, Climate Change Research Centre, University of New South Wales, Sydney, Australia; Chris Rapley, Ph.D., Professor of Climate Science, University College London, UK; Joan Kleypas, Ph.D., Scientist, Climate and Global Dynamics Division, National Center for Atmospheric Research; James J. McCarthy, Ph.D., Professor of Biological Oceanography, Harvard University; Stefan Rahmstorf, Ph.D., Professor of Physics of the Oceans, Potsdam University, Germany; Julia Cole, Ph.D., Professor, Geosciences and Atmospheric Sciences, University of Arizona; William H. Schlesinger, Ph.D., President, Cary Institute of Ecosystem Studies; Jonathan Overpeck, Ph.D., Professor of Geosciences and Atmospheric Sciences, University of Arizona ; Eric Rignot, Ph.D., Senior Research Scientist, NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory; Professor of Earth System Science, University of California, Irvine; Wolfgang Cramer, Professor of Global Ecology, Mediterranean Institute for Biodiversity and Ecology, CNRS, Aix-en-Provence, France.
COMMENTS
Nicky of Perth Posted at 12:57 AM Today
You have to give it to this guy for perseverance against the odds. For years he has been complicit in suppressing any debate on the ‘unarguable’science supporting man made global warming, whilst privately bemoaning the fact that the earth seem to be disobeying the perfect computer models the ‘climate scientists’ had constructed. Now when the funding scam is apparent to even Blind Freddie he trots out a ridiculous analogy in support of a plea not to listen to all these dreadful ‘unqualified’ people (most of whom have better and more relevant qualifications than him) who are finally getting their message of … “Don’t panic, the sky isn’t going to fall in!” … into the media (other than in the Abbott Bashing Corporation). Get a real job Kevin! Learn to live with government grants, because they are going to dry up very quick.
Comment 1 of 62
Flrian of SYDNEY Posted at 1:03 AM Today
Follow the money
Comment 2 of 62
Nicky of Perth Posted at 1:06 AM Today
Correction: the last sentence should have read …Learn to live without government grants, because they are going to dry up very quick.
Comment 3 of 62
Ethan of Sydney Posted at 1:10 AM Today
I must confess I was wrong. I truly believed that spin was only a politicians thing but not, scientists are now becoming spin masters. Sorry, spin PhDs. For sure we don’t consult a dentist for a heart condition but cardiologists are fairly available, climate change scientists are a fairly new invention and most of them a fraud. I remember by the late 90′s those people predicting the sea level to rise 12 cm (120mm) by 2012. Apparently the rise so far was less than 1 mm. An error of 119 mm in a 120 mm prediction is not too bad.
Comment 4 of 62
Peter Clack of Canberra Posted at 1:11 AM Today
This petulence is exactly what we have come to expect on the climate debate from self exalted authorities. First, carbon is the stuff of life, and second, how do you explain the static global temperatures for the last decade?
Comment 5 of 62
Brett Wentworth Posted at 1:41 AM Today
Given your ‘dentist / heart condition analogy’, shouldn’t you – along with all the prominent members of your illustrious list – recuse yourself from any comments regarding trends and interpretations of climate model results? After all, none of you appear to be qualified statisticians.
Comment 6 of 62
David Wilson of Warana Posted at 2:11 AM Today
Typical of the global warming mafia – throw mud at anybody who disagrees. Remember Y2K.
Comment 7 of 62
Nico Posted at 2:17 AM Today
“There is also clear evidence the transition to a low-carbon economy will not only allow the world to avoid the worst risks of climate change, but could also drive decades of economic growth. Just what the doctor ordered.” Really? So the broken windows fallacy doesn’t apply in the area of AGW mitigation? Interesting how this letter attempts to abrade the authors of the previous letter for ostensibly not having any expertise in climate science, while the authors of this letter pretend they are experts in economics and finance.
Comment 8 of 62
Bill Murray Posted at 2:54 AM Today
That list certainly confirms the career-based, industrial nature of climate science. Very impressive. (Coughs: qui bono)
Comment 9 of 62
Phil of Bullcreek Posted at 3:06 AM Today
Years ago when i was very young, people like you were saying the ocean was going to rise by 6 meters due to global cooling. Sea levels have risen and fallen for millions of years by hundreds of meters and will continue to do so for ever more.
Comment 10 of 62
Mick RWC of Adelaide Posted at 4:04 AM Today
Well, what an impressive list! And what a call to authority!! My, my: 39 relevant PhDs. What about the Petition Project at www.petitionproject.org ? 31,487 scientist including 9,029 with PhDs all in relevant fields, hold a view contrary to the one expressed by the distinguished Dr Trenberth. Well? Now what? Square one. There is a solid argument against the so called orthodoxy. It would be unscientific to suggest that the science is settled. Dr Trenberth is being a bit bullish, trying to shut down debate with a call to authority and a headline statement that suggests others don’t have the right to comment. Not so, Dr Trenberth. BTW, do you receive any funds to conduct climate research? Do any of your listed associates? Do you stand to lose significant face if you are proved wrong? Is it possible that due to your previous research findings, being pro-climate change, that you could possibly be closed minded to other contrary views? Judging by your unscientific argument here, I think so. How hypocritical to present an unscientific argument to demand only approved scientists may comment on this very controversial field.
Comment 11 of 62
Bananab of Newcastle of Newcastle Posted at 4:53 AM Today
Well Professor Trentberth, as you are an expert in this field you should be able to answer the following relevant and simple question:- If Australia does reduce its CO2 emissions by 5% by 2020 and all other countries continue to operate as 'business as usual' which appears to be the current situation, by how much will global temperatures be reduced in 2020? I have read that other scientists have calculated the temperature reduction would be in the order of only 0.0004 degrees C which is a miniscule amount for an awful lot of cost and pain. Will you please provide us with your expert opinion. This same question has been posed to Gillard, Combet, Flannery, and many others and they have all wimped out. Perhaps you will have the courage to post an answer.
Comment 12 of 62
Roger Posted at 5:44 AM Today
It is only about 5 years since Brisbanites were told by our own climate expert we were going to run out of water and people spent thousands buying and installing water tanks. I notice his name is not in the list.
Comment 13 of 62
Gassius of Kambah ACT Posted at 5:54 AM Today
No, but if there is no toothache in the first place, why consult a dentist. No expertise is required in this except the ability to read a thermometer.
Comment 14 of 62
ifonly Posted at 6:20 AM Today
“Research shows more than 97 per cent of scientists actively publishing in the field agree”. This figure comes from one of two research papers. Probably http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/06/04/1003187107.full.pdf+html. They found 1400 actively published scientists. Then cut this down to 900 to include only those that publish a lot and then when that wasn’t enough, took the top 50 most published and found the 97% figure. It is a bit like saying that48 of the 50 loudest shouters agree with me.
Comment 15 of 62
janama Posted at 6:24 AM Today
The 97% of scientists number stems from a 2009 online survey of 10,257 earth scientists, conducted by two researchers at the University of Illinois. The survey results must have deeply disappointed the researchers “ in the end, they chose to highlight the views of a subgroup of just 77 scientists, 75 of whom thought humans contributed to climate change. The ratio 75/77 produces the 97% figure. Please show me the temperature record that shows warming since 1997 as all the records I've surveyed (GISS, HudCrut, RSS, UAH) show temperatures are flat. The Argo buoys show ocean temperatures dropping and sea level rise has slowed. Of course all the scientists listed agree with you as they are all on the climate change gravy train and the existence of their well funded departments depends on it.
Comment 16 of 62
GeoffB of Bendigo Posted at 6:28 AM Today
October 12 2009 – Kevin Trenberth e-mailed his colleagues: “Where the heck is global warming? … The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t.” Now that observations don’t match the models, surely it is time to objectively review the models, the predicitions and his position. But Kevin Trenberth relies on the consensus of 38 scientists to support his position. Consensus is not science – it is more appropriate in politics. As John Maynard Keynes said: “When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”
Comment 17 of 62
Bob of Maclean Posted at 6:40 AM Today
When will these sceintists stop the academic bullying and look at the total picture? Whilst there is no doubt that climate change is real and that humans are contributing it is obvious to any reasonable sceptic that the use of fossil fuel is not the only cause. The Earth is reaching the zenith of the lastest rise in the cycle of temperature and CO2 fluctuation that occurs about once in 100 years. The current rise started about 50,000 years ago and not at the dawn of the industrial revolution as the scientists would have us believe. Several scientists have gone on record in saying that we must reduce CO2 levels in order to stabilise the climate and even reduce temperatures. That is a lofty claim when the creator has not been able to provide a stable climate in at least the last 400,000 years.The analogy with medicine is cute but silly. Pointing the finger at fossil fuel use, without taking full account of the other human contributions and the input of the causes of the cyclic nature of global temperatures is incomplete at the best and lazy at the worst.
Comment 18 of 62
johno Posted at 6:48 AM Today
Yeh, yeh, yeh. We’ve heard all this before. The only scientist we should listen to are the warmerists. If a scientist doesn’t accept the warmerist view of the world, then we aren’t suppose to listen to them. After all, 97 percent of warmerist surveyed believed the warmerist view. Oh, what a big surprise that i! Guess what. I’m not buying that line any more because I know it is crap. The last decade is the warmist on record if you only look at recent data and ignore those times when our planet has been warmer than it is now. Also, for the last 10 to 15 years, global temperatures have NOT increased, they have flatlined. The warming trend predicted in the models has not come about. The models are a complete fiction. These green activists parading as scientist would do well to heed Lincoln advice that you can’t fool all of the people all of the time. Times up. We have seen through the con.
Comment 19 of 62
Claude Santucci of Brisbane Posted at 7:08 AM Today
You lot are getting desperate! You can see your grants and sponsorships fading away as the truth about “global warming” (or is it now “climate change”) becomes apparent. Kevin Trenberth is as believable as our own beloved alarmist Flannery of “no more rain” fame. You scientists have betrayed your calling and wrapped yourselves in the stubborn shame of non-science. Your arrogance is breathtaking – where did you get the 97% of scientists figure? Who ran that survey? Shame on you all! Is this garbage why you became scientists?
Comment 20 of 62
spareme Posted at 7:10 AM Today
So the argument comes down to scientists at 10 paces!! Not forgetting of course the computer ‘models’ and the inconvenient truth that there is no empirical evidence supporting the AGW movement. Same old illogical arguments (smoking etc) and the fatuous comment about 97% of scientists.
Comment 21 of 62
Joan Posted at 7:19 AM Today
`And computer models show that during periods when there is a smaller increase of surface temperatures, warming is occurring elsewhere, typically in the deep ocean` What does hard real evidence as distinct from computer model show? And what real evidence is there that Gillard $23 tonne Carbon Tax will change World Climate.
Comment 22 of 62
Rex Posted at 7:24 AM Today
Lot more weight signed on here than in the piece published yesterday. And a major, out-of-context quotation exposed! Ask yourself the question: Even if 97% of climate scientists are NOT completely certain that humans are causing serious global warming, but just strongly suspect it, shouldn’t we be taking action? Or don’t you care about making life potentially much worse for your grandchildren? Would you do this for, say, science with even less certainty, like some suspected environmental causes of disease? I doubt it: you’d be citing the “uncertain” science for every personal ailment – and seeking compensation.
Comment 23 of 62
DJV of Cleveland Posted at 7:27 AM Today
There is no argument that the last decade was the warmest on record. It is just that, within the last decade, and a few years before that, the trend in air temperatures is flat. It is no longer increasing the way it was in the previous decades. Given that CO2 levels apparently are continuing to increase, why has temperature flattened out?
Comment 24 of 62
Graham of Nicholson Posted at 7:38 AM Today
More patronising from the “warmists”. The fact that the alarming predictions have not materialised leaves me and many others deeply sceptical that their future predictions will be any more reliable.
Comment 25 of 62
Wal of Ausie Posted at 7:38 AM Today
This statement, “97 per cent of scientists actively publishing in the field agree climate change is real and caused by humans”, by Kevin Trenberth is clearly false. Yes, climate change is real. It has been a part of the world for four billion years, so please explain how it is “caused by humans”. These people are driven by computer-generated, but unsubstantiated projections and self interest.
Comment 26 of 62
Chris of Sydney Posted at 7:40 AM Today
The “few”? Perhaps once again so much will be owed by so many to those few. Try scientific argument on us rather than appealing to numbers. Also read the “Delinquent Teenager” to see how “climate science” of the masses is put together. The UAH global temperature for Jan 2012 has actually gone NEGATIVE and has not increased for well over a decade. No one disputes that climate changes but how much more time do you need to prove that CO2 is driving it?
Comment 27 of 62
dasher Posted at 7:50 AM Today
He said she said….so the science is settled is it.
Comment 28 of 62
nfw of Queanbeyan Posted at 7:51 AM Today
Not THE climate experts? This is the same mob that said we would be living in deserts by now, the rains would stop, snow would never fall again, polar bears would disappear, etc, etc. The climate changes naturally; has done so for millions of years and will do so until the expanding sun eats the planet. Now that will be climate change! No, it’s about funding from left wing governments, power, politics and egos. They can’t admit they are just wrong. Must be a good life living off the public purse making the right noises for politicians giving out funding etc… What about all THE scientists who say the self-proclaimed experts are wrong? Are they wrong? The so-called experts once knew the earth was flat; it was supported by turtles; the sun revolved around the earth. The IPCC is run by a railways engineer who seems to be able to organise conferences in some pretty swish hotels.
Comment 29 of 62
grater Posted at 7:56 AM Today
And yet, for all your expertise, we are skeptical… Maybe it’s time you looked at yourselves and asked, “Why doesn’t the public trust us?”
Comment 30 of 62
Geoff of Tweed Posted at 7:57 AM Today
An article scratching for traction, the usual ridicule of people who dispute the “Climate Scientists”. the tough battle you guys have is that Global Warming IS NOT HAPPENING. The Polar bears are not dying and the movement in sea levels is minuscule. http://www.bom.gov.au/oceanography/projects/ntc/ntc.shtml Since the mid 1970s CO2 has increased 1 Part in 26,000. Since 2007 CO2 has gone up 1 Part in 83,000 http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/ People read what you print, then look out the window. No wonder you guys are not taken seriously. Economists make weather forecasters look precise. You guys make economists look precise.
Comment 31 of 62
Phaeochromocytoma Posted at 7:57 AM Today
This opinion is simply rubbish. I am a cardiologist and I know that you do not need to be a cardiologist to have the necessary skill sets to be able to read, understand and conclude weather results of trials or observations are statistically significant or simply chance occurrence. Indeed having read the “conclusions” based on studies with “p values of >0.1″ I am amused that these self acclaimed climate scientists have the gall to publish at all. Their claims should rightfully be exposed to wider scientific and academic community who lack a vested interest in the debate. Like cardiologists they should be questioned and asked to justify their results even by dentists! There are many capable minds in many fields that are more than able to give alternate and objective analysis of the data. It ain’t rocket science!
Comment 32 of 62
Gemini of brisbane Posted at 8:11 AM Today
now we would like to hear the other side of the story, and from the thousands of scientists and engineers that refute gw. the facts are that the world is cooling.
Comment 33 of 62
Frank of Sunshine Coast Posted at 8:20 AM Today
This issue has been so heavily thrashed about by both sides of the debate that my confidence in trusting any scientific source on this issue has been greatly eroded. I now consider anyone offering an expert opinion on the vagaries of climate science to be no wiser than modern day witch doctors.
Comment 34 of 62
Troy of Mel Posted at 8:22 AM Today
So when a surgeon is amputating the wrong leg, the nurse is not quilfied to comment?
Comment 35 of 62
Glenn of Townsville Posted at 8:22 AM Today
Nice try, Trenberth, but no goal. This continued frantic promotion of a concocted “danger” reminds me of the Luddites. They failed and so will you. The average person is smarter than you think.
Comment 36 of 62
rob Posted at 8:33 AM Today
Hmmm . . . A lot of the signatories to this response look pretty much like ‘dentists’ to me. Anyone who knows anything about the history of science will know to be fairly careful when any group of scientists claims to possess the authorised and exclusive version of the truth (i.e. that the science is ‘settled’). The more strident these anthropogenic warmists become the more their science looks like ideology.
Comment 37 of 62
Botswana O’Hooligan of Brissie Posted at 8:45 AM Today
Mr Trenberth says it all in his opening paragraph, to whit, do you consult your dentist about your heart condition? Working on that very principle we then must ask ourselves why Ms Gillard took notice of Mr Tim Flannery and Mr Ross Garnaut, the one an expert on small mammals who owns a couple of waterfront properties in NSW, and the other an economist, adviser to the basket case PNG Govt and former director of Lihir Gold who pump millions of tonnes of polluion into the sea each year. Thank you Mr Trenberth, thank you indeed.
Comment 38 of 62
Jack Posted at 9:00 AM Today
How many of those scientists are connected to WWF? WWF asked for UEA to widen the signifigance values on their temperature values. The initial study showed only natural variation, but once widened, then statistically any conclusion was equally valid or wrong and therefore claims of catastrophe were as valid as natural variation. Attacking Trenberth’s conclusion first, there is clear evidence of economic suicide by adopting low carbon strategies. Green jobs is a myth as Spain has discovered. Recent analysis says to leave things alone. Similar to Trenberth’s post normal science, where you fit the data to the conclusion you require, post normal economics ( environmental economics) does the same. The 97% of scientists actively publishing is a lurk. The cadre of climate scientists stacked the publishing journals with their friends, so only their side is permitted to be published.The De Freitas case in New Zealand is a classic example. Trenberth contradicts himself about deep ocean heating. He uses the word typically as a weasel word to include deep oceans, then adjusts the model to show nature is false and the models are real. He was not misquoted but puzzled.
Comment 39 of 62
Justin of Melbourne Posted at 9:18 AM Today
1. Another warmist argument resorting to a show of hands rather than scientific facts. 2. Again there is no argument to counter the lack of empirical evidence for CO2 induced warming and amplification of feedbacks.In fact the justification for his email comment acknowledges the empirical evidence does not exist. 3. Specifically, no comment about the tropospheric hotspot. No comment about the lack of surface warming. No comment about lack of warming in the sea. No comment about escaping radiation into space. No comment about model results grossly exaggerating the past 20 years of climate which failed to materialise. 4. His analogy to the dentist if anything works against him. The idea of a “climate expert” is a bit of a nonsense. Since understanding climate requires expertise in dozens of scientific fields no one person can claim to be truly “expert” as he claims. 5.Simply stating the world is warmer says nothing about the cause of warming which is the real issue. 6. Moreover, as there is consensus about the warming effect of CO2 the real issue is about climate sensitivity, to which he has nothing to say. 7. Another straw-man argument.
Comment 40 of 62
Lukemac of Lara Posted at 9:20 AM Today
Lack of expertise is really a very poor argument put forward, particularly when climate scientist seem happy to freely comment on areas outside their discipline such as economics. Climate science is a multifaceted discipline and at times all encompassing. It covers such sciences as physics, chemistry, mathematics, biology and economics just to name a few. Is the author seriously suggestion that one discipline can gain such overarching expertise in so many diverse fields, that people who have specialised in one of these areas should not be able to comment? I would like to point out how Manna's Hockey stick graph was pulled apart by a mathematician and an economist, experts in their field who trumped the climate scientists. I say before we listen to climate scientist and their computer models that predict the future, make them pass a simple test. Run the models backwards and show they can accurately predict the past in line with the historical record.
Comment 41 of 62
Dr Rebel of Australia Posted at 9:21 AM Today
Once again the “97%” argument. Please provide for true upholders of the scientific method, a falsifiable test of the AGW hypothesis. Currently, AGW is best described as model based pseudoscience. Sceptics have every right to dismiss AGW as such until such time as it presents itself as a credible scientific theory. Falsifiable tests please.
Comment 42 of 62
Unconvinced and chilly reception! of Brisbane Posted at 9:21 AM Today
Thanks for this patronising pap. Explain why East Anglia scientists hid their data, failed to release their data, harassed people who failed to agree with their theories, bullied and rigged editorial boards. Explain why your theory,a simplistic one of CO2 alone, has not worked, that is, why it hasn’t heated up to the degree it should have by now. Explain to us, the public, why you are milking our public taxes of billions for your unfounded theories. Real science is where you make your data publicly available and your results from experiments are endlessly repeatable; that proves a theory, not subterfuge, bullying and hiding data. Oh, and explain why it’s been so cold? Lots of CO@ out there now? Oh, that’s right you all get money to talk about climate and it’s nice to scare people about warming to get more money. Try an experiment, vacuum flask with CO2, leave it in the sun and prove it has some magical heating effect. UNCONVINCED and CHILLY!
Comment 43 of 62
Keith HOOD Posted at 9:34 AM Today
Kevin, as in anything it pays to look at the funding trail, given your role, if there were no warming then you wouldnt be able to access the excessive funding being poured into climate change research or gravy train trips to attend gabfests on it. The peer review process means nothing, as they will only peer review what they choose is acceptabl to them, and generally agree with anything put forward by supporters of their warming faith, regardless how dubious their modelling is and its increasing difference with actual observations. I gather we no longer have to listen to Tim Flannery given he has no qualifications in this field and no doubt you would reccomend the government cut his pay check immediately??
Comment 44 of 62
JP of Sydney. Posted at 9:34 AM Today
What a miserable defense to this new ‘faith’. Words are cheap and you conveniently forget that there are scores of ‘dentists’ and other that support climate change such as flim flam Flannery he isn’t a climate expert yet he is the government representative on climate change. The argument to cut you and you followers down is overwhelming. At least news limited publishes the other side, fairfax would never give those arguing against climate change a paragraph.
Comment 45 of 62
Chris Burges of Brisbane Posted at 9:36 AM Today
“Research shows more than 97 per cent of scientists actively publishing in the field…” The litany of rejecting non-conforming papers from such publications is long and damning, just review the “climategate” emails where reviewers note their combined efforts to prevent contrary opinion getting publication. Reverting to statements like the “warmest decade” etc completely dodge the fact that the models’ predictions are consistently overstating the real world’s temperature profile. Until this major error in the models is rectified, the “97%” has all the strength of a “convenient” truth.
Comment 46 of 62
Stephen Morgan of Runcorn Posted at 9:43 AM Today
Okay…when the last letter came in everybody went “thank goodness for some common sense” and “wow, look at that list of important people”. Well, here’s so much more common sense, from so many more important people, who actually have expertise in the field. It is scientifically nonsensical to not accord this a recognisably higher status than the previous letter. Does it mean that these people are necessarily right, and that the others are necessarily wrong….well of course not. But it does mean that if we are to accept THE SCIENCE of the debate then we need to stop pretending that a minority view that is factually incorrect and uses deception to make a case must not be held in the same regard as peer-reviewed expert knowledge. The ONLY possibly excuse for not doing this is greed. The initial letter talked about following the money; well, when people realise they might have to pay for the luxuries they expect, some of them start thinking with their pockets. Yep, it’s the money alright…but not the money some people imagine!
Comment 47 of 62
Matt of Neutral Bay Posted at 9:55 AM Today
An expert in climate is a bit like an expert in theology; all very inetersting if you accept their assumptions but not much use to the rest of us since they can’t make one iota of difference to the result. Or even tell us with any credibility what the result will be. A cardiologist explains and (usually) heals. A climatologist merely speculates.
Comment 48 of 62
Academic Economist of NSW Posted at 10:00 AM Today
Mate I agree that is why those economists who have so much to say about Global Warming must be outed as having no useful qualifications in this field at all. Indeed the ANU academic economists have no knowledge of how financial markets work, so Garnaut’s report is an absolute fraud on Australians.
Comment 49 of 62
Peter Wardle of Moss Vale Posted at 10:04 AM Today
Yet another attack on the sceptics without any presentation as to why the small portion of carbon dioxide emitted by humans is the cause of climate change. Also a childish comparison of climate sceptics to HIV/aids and smoking/cancer deniers. There is no comparison because the sceptic camp is loaded with people who have studied the data and the science and have thence applied that most rare ingredient; logic. The 97% figure of consensus scientists is totally misleading when fewer than half the 10,000 scientists questioned did not respond and of those that did there was an agreement that humans had “some” influence on the climate. As to the warmest decade on record: the latest Met. office released data shows that there has been no warming of the Earth for the last 15 years. Continued…
Comment 50 of 62
Damien Doyle of Dalgety Posted at 10:04 AM Today
OK lets accepted the concept. If humans are the sole or major cause of climate change we had better seriously reduce the population increase around the world. The forecasts for the size of the Earths population in years to come are terrifying. Wouldn’t it be prudent to make some real committment to reducing the growth of the Eaths population? Every extra person will make a demand on the Earths resources thus contributing to the dilemma. One must also concider the extra CO2 from exhalation. Far fetched? I don’t think so if you accept the concept of global warming.
Comment 51 of 62
Peter Wardle of Moss Vale Posted at 10:05 AM Today
… The scientists listed are either in or associated with the climate modelling fraternity. These models have now been shown to be woefully inaccurate. However, those who have c arrears committed to these models will continue to push their barrows to the end. Empirical evidence is, in the end, the only metric which has any credibility. To date there is no, I repeat NO empirical evidence that the 3-4% of Earth’s carbon dioxide emission produced by the burning of fossil fuels has any influence on the climate whatsoever. The climate models created by humans manipulating assumptions made by humans remains nothing more than a pseudo-science. The climate models created by humans manipulating assumptions made by humans remains nothing more than a pseudo-science.
Comment 52 of 62
norman carter of ivanhoe Posted at 10:05 AM Today
The climate is a NON-LINEAR CHAOTIC SYSTEM. If one was to set a motor boat going without a driver in Port Phillip Bay and predict the point at which it woiuld strike land you would have about the same ds. P.S. The world temperature is exactly the same as it was 15 years ago. people are dying in europe from the cold. queensland is flooding again.
Comment 53 of 62
Stephen Morgan of Runcorn Posted at 10:16 AM Today
My God…some of you are actually serious! You just believe what you want and pay NO attention to what is actually going on. In any and every science there is going to be debate and disagreement – the scientific method is to go with what is best supported by the available facts. What we have in the comments above is essentially “I don’t want it to be true therefore I shall only credit evidence which disputes it”. There is no greater reputability in the evidence provided by the heroes of denial…yet denialists give it 100% of the available credibility. NOT SCIENCE!! To answer grater at 7.56 as to why people are still sceptical; well, one has to consider that with all the evidence available, it is due to dumb ignorance and filthy greed! Really…there just cannot be any other excuse for such a denial of the scientific processes that have been developed over centuries. We are in the presence of the wilful destruction of wisdom!
Comment 54 of 62
David from Gold Coast Posted at 10:31 AM Today
My list of names is longer than yours na na na na na.
Comment 55 of 62
Lawrie Ayres Posted at 10:32 AM Today
97%. The university of Illinois conducted an online survey of 10000 scientists to which it received 3000 responses of which 80% did not support the hypothesis of man made warming. The 3000 was culled until only 77 remained who had submitted more than 20 papers on climate change/ global warming. Of the 77, 75 supported the hypothesis and 2 didn’t hence we have 97% of climate scientists say….. Trenberth said that AGW would manifest itself with a hotspot over the equator trouble is that 30000 radiosondes have failed to find it. The oceans have cooled but now Trenberth and co reckon the heat is in the deepest ocean water where it can’t be measured. You don’t need to be a climate scientist to know that every one of their predictions over the past thirty years has failed to materialise. We still pay Tim Flannery $180000 a year to scare us about droughts and bush fires in the midst of the coolest and wettest year for ages. The climate scam is over and only the deluded and desperate keep clinging like a man clings to a life float in a stormy sea. We could devote the untold billions wasted on this fraud to real problems.
Comment 56 of 62
Helen Armstrong Posted at 10:38 AM Today
Hmm how about Dr Trenberth and his cosignatories read ‘The Delinquent Teenager” – an expose of the very dirty fingernails of the IPCC – to find out just how little of the IPCC report (the climate change bible)was actually written and peer reviewed by scientists?
Comment 57 of 62
Beno of Adelaide Posted at 10:39 AM Today
“more than 97 per cent of scientists actively publishing in the field agree climate change is real” So the only ones we should listen to are those whose ongoing funding and relevance are directly dependent on the continuation of the AGW myth? I imagine somewhere in the vicinity of 97% of real estate agents would still tell us property is booming.. I guess we should blindly follow that advice as well? An individual's sense of self preservation shouldn't be mistaken for misrepresented significance or dressed up as unequivocal fact.
Comment 58 of 62
Peter H Posted at 10:40 AM Today
“Professor of Climate Change” supports climate change – now there’s a surprise. How long does it take for these Government sponsored intellectual bureaucrats to grasp that this whole “science” was created around the proposition that climate change was a “fact” and that their careers were built around exploiting that “fact” to create an argument that would empower the left wing of politics to put the entire human race into a social and economic straight jacket. You might be great scientists, but ultimately this argument is about the politics of a free society having a legitimate interest in remaining a free society.
Comment 59 of 62
sid of buderim Posted at 10:44 AM Today
Sadly another snow job and one that relies on stats the interpretations of which are heavily disputed throughout the scientific community and rely on the ad hommenem argument because something was said by a handful of people , therefore it must be right. If things are so schmick why then do such Doyens as Al Gore resort to ridiculous exaggerations is his much saluted “documentary”, why also did the “emailgates” version 1 and 2 occur; why did EUA and their associates seek to hide so much detail; manipulate the stats and really deliberately seek to mislead the masses. If things are so clear why these lies. Why is it that open debate is not tolerated in our electronic media particularly our ABC. Surely if the science is so settled such a debate between 2 people with opposing views should be welcomed rather than avoided at all costs. Until the scientific community is prepared to be more honest and open then i will remain a sceptic or denielist or whatever unsavory name the wish to point towards me
Comment 60 of 62
bruceS of nsw central coast Posted at 10:52 AM Today
Oh if only it were so. The science in play in regards to Global Warming is Political Science, which was proven by Climategate. For a group of people who reject religion, they sound very much like a Cult. By the way CO2 does not drive warming, it follows it by 200 to 800 years. Now there is an inconvenient fact.
Comment 61 of 62
Ricey Posted at 10:58 AM Today
So should I continue to ignore anything that Ross Garnaut and the Federal Government says because they are not qualified. Scientific consensus does not always match the reality. Prior to Copernicus there was a lot of science / maths to back up the prevailing view that the Earth was the Centre of Universe. Many years ago I majored in Applied Mathematics and I am extremely skeptical of long term predictions made using any climate model. The more complex the model the more impact of chaotic affects. If you vary the initial conditions in the model slightly you may get vastly different results for long term predictions. This is why on the BOM website you do not get predictions beyond 7 days. I am not DENYing that humans are having an influence on the climate. I just beg to differ on the solutions being offered. It is a good thing to modify our reliance on fossils fuels as a risk management strategy to mitigate the shock to the world as the day approaches when we run out. Maybe if we also pushed this aspect we could unite more the Climate Change Deniers with Climate Change Proponents to gradually phase out our reliance on fossil fuels.
Comment 62 of 62










